Facts and stories about Texas Style Fiddle Innovator Benny Thomasson 3 time World Champion (1955, 56, 57) 15 time Texas State Champion National Fiddle Champion (1974) National Senior Fiddle Champion (1974, 1979) CLICK HERE FOR "Benny Thomasson Fiddle Transcriptions" Recordings by Benny Thomasson

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If you would care to add any stories and/or facts about Benny Thomasson, please Email me!

Many thanks to: Gary Lee Moore, Stacy Phillips, John Burke, Gertie Chase, Vivian and Phil Williams, Jim Ed Hodges, Marty Elmore, Tony Ludiker, Valerie Ryals.

Read more about Benny and other greats of Texas fiddling at:

Texas Fiddlers Hall of Fame

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Facts and stories about
Texas Style Fiddle Innovator Benny Thomasson
(Last Update September 2, 1998)

Benny Thomasson

(born April 22,1909, died 1983) is one of the inventors of Texas style fiddling. This smooth, complex fiddle style evolved from older fiddling styles to become one of the most popular ways of fiddling, especially in the western part of the US. Today, many fiddle contests, especially in the western US, are won by fiddlers playing this style which Benny was instrumental in creating.

Born in Runnels County, Benny was raised in Gatesville, Texas. Born into a musical family as one of 10 children, his dad Luke and uncle Ed were widely known fiddlers. Some of the best fiddlers in Texas were regular guests at the Thomasson home, players like Eck Robertson, Lefty Franklin and many others.

When he was 19, Benny entered a contest in Dallas, figuring to be among the top players. When he was not, he needed to do something to get some recognition.

As Vivian Williams writes:

In the summer of 1973 my husband Phil and I had the privilege of playing with Benny Thomasson at the National Folk Festival in Vienna, Virginia. We recorded a workshop he did with us there, and the recent discussion about the origins of Texas contest fiddling inspired me to dig out the tape and transcribe Benny's comments. I thought you might be interested in an excerpt.

[Benny plays Ragtime Annie in a very plain, unornamented square dance style]

Phil Williams: "Now back there when you were first starting in the contests, the fiddlers were playing tunes sort of like that .... Why don't you describe what happened when you went to that contest when you were 19?"

Benny Thomasson: "OK. This was a pretty big occasion right there, and I thought I was a real good fiddler. And I went up to this contest and there was I guess over 200 fiddlers up there. They was pretty good ones, but I still thought I ranked along about the top numbers there. So when I got up to play - "

PW: "Where was this?"

BT: "This was in Dallas, Texas..... And when it come my time to play, I had to [inaudible] on my three tunes right there, and boy, I thought I was really getting after them. Come to find out nobody even noticed. And so when that come about, I decided right then that something had to be done, so I could be up there amongst the rest of the good fiddlers. So I went to work on these old tunes there, and didn't change the tune or anything like that, but actually what I did was just to make the different variations of the same parts, but maybe in a different location on the fiddle, or rounded them out, and smoothed them out to where finally they began to give me a little recognition there. And that made me work harder, so I worked on those things for years and years. That's how come things being in the condition they're in right now. Some people don't think it's so good!"

Benny continued to develop his style, as were other players who were thinking along the same lines. Playing against each other in fiddle contests, they were constantly trying to better one another. New parts were added to the old tunes, existing parts spruced up and "rounded out" to make them better.

John Burke writes:

On the topic of Texas (and contest) style fiddling, I think today's Texas style was clearly developed by Benny and Major Franklin in the 50s. For better or worse, that is what folks associate with the term Texas-style today. However, tapes I've heard of them at that time were much more up-tempo, had generally less swingy, but were very highly ornamented, with a really good sense of using intermediate double-stop based figures to give more depth to traditional 3-chord tunes.

Major's approach was really unique in its bouncy rhythm; Benny generally added his contributions through melodic variation, with a much smoother bow, but still retaining a nice lilt even at breakdown tempo. Benny injured his back in an accident in a body shop in the 60s and thereafter really emphasized the slower, swingier approach, although I heard him jam with BG bands in the 70s and he could still step right up into the fast tempos.

Anyway, all these guys avidly followed the music of the others. As far as I can tell, only Benny's brother Lewis stuck to the more traditional Texas breakdown style, strongly emphasizing straight rhythm and relatively unadorned melody.

But most of them were very involved in innovating within tradition. The same is true with today's players, I think. Lots of influences always combining and recombining to reinvigorate the same body of material. All types of performing situations from contests to dances and radio appearances helped to keep them all in touch, but not so much that they couldn't come up with their own unique contributions. Many well-trained players of the 40s and 50s made contributions by passing on bits of good classical technique to people like Benny. This ultimately resulted in people like Mark O'Connor who never really studied violin, but have wonderful technique combined with a fiddle-music sensibility.

As for technique, Benny developed a very smooth, fluid bowing style. His style was mostly a single bow stroke for each note with slurs for rhythmic accent (except in cases like Sally Goodin, which is mostly slurring). It was this combination of smooth sound and long flowing melodic lines which have drawn so many players to his style.

John Burke continues:

Note also that Benny generally had a "classical" elbow position when bowing --- his forearm often looked like a pendulum swinging back and forth under that elevated elbow. If you check it out, you will also see that Kenny Baker also affects that elbow position, as did Clark Kessinger. Benny was a HUGE fan of Clark Kessinger and Gary Lee Moore said he was once at Clark's when Clark played him a tape that Benny had sent to Clark. Clark's comment on the tape was on the order of "wait till you hear this incredible Texan."

I believe Slim Rutland and Howard Forrester played orchestral music together and Slim was turned on to some of the more progressive fiddle music of the 40s and 50s by Howdy, who also played with Roy Acuff at the time. Both were well-trained professional musicians, as was Clayton McMichen.

Slim went looking for interesting players in the Dallas area and everyone pointed to Benny's father Luke. Supposedly the two of them spent a weekend working out the tune "Say Old Man, Can You Play the Fiddle." In fact, Gary says that was the phrase Slim used when he introduced himself to Benny's father. Interestingly, Benny referred to this tune as Lady's Fancy, so perhaps Slim and Luke made it up by elaborating an older melody. Another tune by Slim, Rutland Reel, shows the same desire to expand a traditional tune in a quasi-classical way (Bob Christeson told me Rutland Reel was a re working of some version of Sugar in the Gourd, although I never really heard the similarity).

Stacy Phillips writes:

According to Benny - Slim Rutland and Howdy Forrester often visited Benny Thomasson in the late 40's during their stint as radio performers (along with Arthur Smith for a short while) in Texas. Mark O'Connor tells a story he heard about Slim knocking on Benny's door and saying, "I heard you're the greatest fiddler in the world. Will you play for me?" When Benny did, Slim fell down on the floor (and cried??!!). Benny taught him a lot of tunes (including Say Old Man) and credits him with being "a great fiddler". Slim won many contests in Texas back then. George Custer, Slim's nephew(?) is a fiddler and knows some things about those days. He lives in Florida.

Benny's repertoire was HUGE! Not only Texas style standards, but old time crossed tuned pieces, swing and novelty songs, waltzes, and on and on and on...

John Burke writes:

Finally, I've mentioned this before, but finally went and dug it out of the back of a closet. In the seventies, Benny sold me a fiddle, but he needed to keep using it, so he kept it for a couple of years while he looked for another one. Later, when I saw him at a festival he gave me the fiddle and a nice Jaegar case for it. In the case he left a tune list someone had typed out for him. He had also added a lot of tunes in longhand. I don't think I ever heard Benny play more than a dozen of the things on the list. Pretty eclectic mix of stuff he played from the 50s thru the 70s (starting with a ton of waltzes):

Benny's (partial) tune list
After the Ball is Over; Alice Blue Gown, Black Hawk, Charmaine, Diane, I'd Love to Live in Loveland; I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles; In the Good Old Summertime; In the Shade of the Old Apple Tree; Greensleeves; It's a Sin to Tell a Lie; I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now; Meet Me Tonight in Dreamland; Memories; Missouri; Moonlight on the River Colorado; The One Rose; Peggy O'Neill; School Days; Somewhere in Old Wyoming; Till We Meet Again; The Waltz You Saved For Me; When I Grow Too Old to Dream; What'll I Do; When Your Hair has Turned to Silver; By the Silvery Rio Grande; Maria Elena; Butterflies; Mighty Pretty Waltz; Shenandoah Waltz; Be Honest with Me; Careless Love; Casey Jones; Have I Told You Lately that I Love You; It Makes No Difference Now; Marching Through Georgia; Red Wing; Slipping Around; Some Day You'll Want Me to Want You; Tears on My Pillow; Black & White Rag; Maple Leaf Rag; Gerry Owen.

Handwritten additions:
You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You; Around the World in 80 Days; World is Waiting for the Sunrise; Drifting and Dreaming; Ook Pik Waltz; My Blue Heaven; South; Tiger Rag; Some of These Days; Sweet Sue; Sweet Georgia Brown; Sweet Stranger; Frivolous Sal; Tuxedo Junction; House of David Blues; Don't Love Nobody; I Can't Give You Anything But Love; Sugar Blues; Get Out and Get Under the Moon; Stardust; Goofus; Song of the Wanderer; Nobody's Sweetheart; China Boy; China Town; Darktown Strutters Ball; Whispering; Once I Had a Secret Love; Running Wild; River Road Stomp; Faded Love

Interesting list. Funny that there are no breakdowns! Perhaps this was more of a "tickler" list for him to remind him of stuff that he knew but maybe played less often than breakdowns? Just a guess.

By the way, Benny's dad Luke is generally considered to have written "Midnight on the Water." Luke and Slim Rutland to have written " Say Old Man" together. But the idea that they reworked these tunes from older ones makes sense. Benny played "Midnight" cross-tuned; I think he also lowered the G string to an E for Lady's Fancy. I think he also said Luke wrote Bush in the Shucks (a.k.a. Chuck in the Bush), another very similar tune about a friend (John Bush I think). Not to embarrass anyone, but I think they looked out and saw Bush rummaging around in the corn cobs and shucks near the outhouse and wrote the tune to commemorate it...

I like the Bush in the Shucks story, great fiddle tune folklore. However, Jim Ed Hodges writes:

I noticed that the last paragraph in your Benny Thomasson page that "Chuck in the Bush" is credited to Luke Thomasson. It was written by Bryant Houston's father and the correct name is and always has been Shuck in the Bush.

Among Benny's influences (besides his father) were Clark Kessinger and Ervin Solomon.

The list of great players who learned or were influenced by Benny is endless. Texas Shorty (Jim Chancellor), Mark O'Connor, Terry Morris, Dale Morris and countless others. Mark got his famous white fiddle from Benny.

John Burke writes:

"For many years Mark O'Connor played the "white fiddle." He got it from Benny Thomasson and went around getting lots of famous fiddlers to autograph it for him.

It was white because someone spray painted it. Benny thought it sounded OK and he set it up. Then everyone was afraid to remove the white paint, out of superstition I guess. I think that fiddle went to the country music hall of fame, kind of like an old horse that gets to become a lawn ornament..."

Benny had his share of fiddle contest wins, among the most prestigious were: 3 time World Champion (1955, 56, 57), 15 time Texas State Champion, National Fiddle Champion (1974), National Senior Champion (at least 1974 and 1979). Wins in other contests were to numerous to list.

"Bennie Thomasson, third place winner in open competition for the past two years and 1974 Senior division champ, walked off with top honors Saturday night, becoming the 1974 National Oldtime Fiddling Champion." Competing against 92 other fiddlers, Thomasson, who just turned 65, played tunes of "Billy in the Lowground", "Martin's Waltz", "Bow Down Rag", Tom and Jerry", "Kelly Waltz", and "The Cotton Patch Rag" Saturday Night. He was accompanied by his son, Jerry Thomasson and Dave Johns. Not only did Thomasson win the National and Senior titles, he also won the Northwest regional award and the Best Liked Fiddler award, a competition judged by other fiddlers and accompanists. Thomasson also won the Best Liked award in 1973."

"Kissing Margaret Whittington was the best part about winning the Senior Grand Champion trophy" said Benny Thomasson, 70, Toledo, Wash.

Margaret, Weiser's woman of the year, gave out trophies ... and kisses to all senior winners Wednesday evening during the National Oldtime Fiddlers' contest in the Weiser High school gymnasium.

Benny, who is retired from an automotive body repair shop, spends most of his time fishing ... except for "contesting" now and then. He was 1974 National Grand Champion here at Weiser and also National Senior Champion. This is the only time this has happened during the tenure of the contest.

"It feels great to win," he said. "You never know what will happen when you come here." Benny started playing when he was about 5 years old and has been going to contests for some 55 years. He comes from a musical family ... everybody else played so to get along he played, too. He used to be able to hear a tune and pick it right up ... he doesn't read music. Nowadays he says that thing up there, pointing to his head, doesn't work quite as well as it used to and he has to think about the tunes a bit before committing them to memory. He's off next to Calgary to judge the fiddle contest held in conjunction with the Calgary Stampede.

Benny's winning tunes were Soppin' the Gravy, Martin's Waltz, and Black and White Rag. He was accompanied by David Johns, Quincy, Calif. and Mark O'Connor, Mt. Lake Terrace, Wash. He received a check for $200.00

In addition to being a great fiddler, Benny was a very nice human being. Many musicians tell of him patiently showing someone a tune or giving them encouragement. He would also play tunes people requested. Valerie Ryals Bates writes

"When I was a little girl and listening to a jam, Benny was really playing some great tunes like Billy in the Lowground, etc... Someone came up and asked if he knew how to play "Down in the Valley." The guitar players kind of frowned, but Benny said "My doggies, I think so." Well he played it beautiful, then got into another breakdown or something. What a great person! I can never recall him hurting anyone's feelings."

John Burke writes:

In reference to the Jeff Bridges flick "Stay Hungry," John Lardinois asked: "Byron (Berline) told me that Benny Thomasson had a cameo in this movie; has anyone looked closely for him in the video?"

Yes, Benny was in Stay Hungry. Arnold Schwarzenegger played a young body-building fiddler (very common combination, eh) and Benny appeared and played a tune or two as his "mentor." Byron set the thing up for Benny. Here's a funny story. We were with Benny at McCabe's the night Byron, Arnold and the director (I forget his name, but I do remember he was wearing goggles all night --- must have been a Kareem fan) asked Benny to do the movie.

Anyway, before Benny and Byron played a show, they were trying to convince Benny to do the movie. He wasn't too sure. Byron's wife said, "They wanted Byron to play the role, but I said Byron is too young and handsome to play somebody's mentor."

Benny looked up with a completely straight face and said: "So you wanted an old ugly guy, and thought of me first."

He said this so straight, silence descended. Arnold rolled his eyes, the director drew in a deep breath as the sweat condensed on the inside of his goggles.

Then, suddenly Benny's face changed into his huge grin, and he and his wife Bea laughed until the whole place was laughing, even people who couldn't possibly have heard that interchange.

So he did the movie. Of course, Benny just did his little part on some sound stage, and actually had no idea what the movie was about.

When it came out, Benny and Bea were on the road, and they went to see it. They had been hoping to bring all their friends and family to see Benny the Matinee Idol in his motion picture debut. Pretty big deal for quiet, religious folks (they're Witnesses). Unfortunately, the scene with Jeff Bridges and the leading lady making love in the shower occurred before Benny's scene. They left when the camera started closing in on the nudity and never mentioned taking the family to see it again.

Full disclosure: These events happened 20 years ago. I am not documenting history, just telling the stories. I may have some facts out of order. Or maybe completely wrong. Or I may be hallucinating.

More to come ...